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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:44 pm 
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BDF beat me to the punch.

Deathjet's FAQ wrote:
25. Q: What's an activated skill?
A: An activated skill is somewhat similar to a special... except in the fact that it's RARELY offensive. It's an ability that YOU, the player, choose to activate and temporarily give your character a boost in ability or some form of special effect. The most important thing about an activated skill that a player needs to know is that a character can (typically) only have ONE. Meaning... once you use it, it's gone. Choose wisely.


I suppose the keyword here is "typical". But, even so, I recall numerous times where this came up. If I had other mods here, I'm sure they'd agree; the precedent has been set and solidified that a character can/should have only one "activated" skill. Try and find a character w/ more than one. I doubt you'll find it.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:49 pm 
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I teeeeeeechnically do, but the details are sketchy. I have one reactionary/self-activated speed boost skill (only usable in desperation, but technically activated and lasts the rest of the game with diminishing effects energy-wise), my Ring Shield, and a Broken Movement. I also used to have this sucky skill that imitated opponents, but I just recently replaced that after never using it, so I don't think that was too much trouble.

Concerning mage classes in general, I'd like to bring up this:

Grad wrote:
Summoners, despite their power, is a very boring class once you reach middle-late of your characer's life. Honestly, there really isn't much you could do with someone who does nothing but call forth minions and kill you. Their very strong but they have a weakness and once you exploit their weakness, their very well... weak. You really can't do much about summoners unlike other/most classes. I'm somewhat bored with my summoner although I haven't battled in like months.


I'm not really sure how to feel about this. Maybe it was just how he felt in his character crisis. Maybe he didn't really craft the character to the flavor he would have liked it. But I'm trying to imagine what a mid-powered summoner would do. What stands is that characters like Summoners and Animists tend to not last very long. How can this be addressed? Is it the options the players have or are limited to?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:21 am 
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ddranimestyle wrote:
Concerning mage classes in general, I'd like to bring up this:

Grad wrote:
Summoners, despite their power, is a very boring class once you reach middle-late of your characer's life. Honestly, there really isn't much you could do with someone who does nothing but call forth minions and kill you. Their very strong but they have a weakness and once you exploit their weakness, their very well... weak. You really can't do much about summoners unlike other/most classes. I'm somewhat bored with my summoner although I haven't battled in like months.


I'm not really sure how to feel about this. Maybe it was just how he felt in his character crisis. Maybe he didn't really craft the character to the flavor he would have liked it. But I'm trying to imagine what a mid-powered summoner would do. What stands is that characters like Summoners and Animists tend to not last very long. How can this be addressed? Is it the options the players have or are limited to?


My first stab at this is that they can't have specials. Just big[ger] summons. That leaves a pretty plain class. At least animists can make custom equipment for their summons.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 am 
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leboyX wrote:
BDF beat me to the punch.

Deathjet's FAQ wrote:
25. Q: What's an activated skill?
A: An activated skill is somewhat similar to a special... except in the fact that it's RARELY offensive. It's an ability that YOU, the player, choose to activate and temporarily give your character a boost in ability or some form of special effect. The most important thing about an activated skill that a player needs to know is that a character can (typically) only have ONE. Meaning... once you use it, it's gone. Choose wisely.


I suppose the keyword here is "typical". But, even so, I recall numerous times where this came up. If I had other mods here, I'm sure they'd agree; the precedent has been set and solidified that a character can/should have only one "activated" skill. Try and find a character w/ more than one. I doubt you'll find it.



Well, Bezerkers and Rangers can have multiple activated skills as a part of their class mechanics...


leboyX wrote:
ddranimestyle wrote:
Concerning mage classes in general, I'd like to bring up this:

Grad wrote:
Summoners, despite their power, is a very boring class once you reach middle-late of your characer's life. Honestly, there really isn't much you could do with someone who does nothing but call forth minions and kill you. Their very strong but they have a weakness and once you exploit their weakness, their very well... weak. You really can't do much about summoners unlike other/most classes. I'm somewhat bored with my summoner although I haven't battled in like months.


I'm not really sure how to feel about this. Maybe it was just how he felt in his character crisis. Maybe he didn't really craft the character to the flavor he would have liked it. But I'm trying to imagine what a mid-powered summoner would do. What stands is that characters like Summoners and Animists tend to not last very long. How can this be addressed? Is it the options the players have or are limited to?


My first stab at this is that they can't have specials. Just big[ger] summons. That leaves a pretty plain class. At least animists can make custom equipment for their summons.

At one point in time I had an idea to change the resource mechanics of the summoner class, where each turn they pick one of 4 energy resources and store it, that resource can be used to summon creatures from their summon lists with each summon having different costs. However you could also add 'pseudo' abilities to the summons which cost those resources to use making you choose between summoning and ability use.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I was not aware of this rule, i might have 3...

Quote:
Death’s Grace – Medium skill (IoaLS)
By releasing spiritual energy Kate is able to lighten her body and float an inch off the floor. When activated Kate is able to move at her normal speeds in any directions ignoring terrain. This skill has disadvantages however, Kate when floating has no friction to the floor and so can’t put as much force behind attacks and also she can get knocked back easily. Due to the spiritual energy having to be released, despite her not having to physically move she still gains fatigue equal to the tiredness she would have to use to move that speed normally. Kate can activate this on or off after three posts of it being in a particular stare.


Quote:
The Chains of Freedom – Medium Skill (IoaLS)
Freedom the entity trapped in Katherine’s blade has bonded with her, its touch twists their souls together allowing them to share emotions. Freedom has grown attached to Kate and craves her attention like a jealous lover. Anyone else who tries to hold or touch the handle of the rapier experiences a painful shock for as long as the physical contact is maintained, while it does no lasting damage or pain it usually makes sure no one tried to touch her blade. In addition Katherine is able to call the blade back to her hand by whispering its name, the blade phases quickly into her hand after a second from wherever it is, using Kate’s spiritual energy as a conduit. Alternatively Freedom can use its own energy to instantly bring the weapon back into her hand with a dark flash, however this drains 1 post of energy from the Dark Jewel.


Quote:
Blood Vision - Racial skill
As an ancient technique of the Darksmiths' Kate has awakened the power inside herself, the blood vision is a second sight, which allows Kate to see a person's very life energy. When activated Kate sees around a person a glow of energy, which differs in colour and strength depending on the person and their type of inner power. In this way a warrior will have a much fainter glow then a magic user however is still very visible. However the technique can become tiresome on her eyes this can only be used for up to three posts at a time and then has to rest for two before being able to activate it again. (see Blust Lust)

Blood Lust – Weak skill
The blood vision had its flaws, the pain it caused when overused was one. But Kate soon overcame this focusing her mental will to keep the vision active this however had its own side effects. The vision opened up several well-sealed doors in a human’s mind, which should probably be left shut. Somewhere between instinct and insanity is what starts to build when used for too much time. The blood vision skill now can be used for longer periods of time and adds the effect to the surroundings with less of an effect of living things. However after 5 posts blood lust kicks in and the insanity and instincts of wanting to kill at any cost builds over the next few posts until post 12 where it reaches its peak of her unstable state. If used after post 13 she is not able to turn her vision off and has to spend the rest of the battle in this state. When turned off every post that passes she recoveries one post of insanity.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
Khan Novaneau wrote:
Well, Bezerkers...can have multiple activated skills as a part of their class mechanics...[/color]


DC's Berserker class description wrote:
If a berserker chooses to make a rage as a skill instead of a special, and the skill has a number of uses applied to it, this does not count as their active skill usage.



So, that explains that.

Khan Novaneau wrote:
...and Rangers can have multiple activated skills as a part of their class mechanics


There's no mention of multiple activated skills in the class' description. While there is an allusion to allowing the "intoxication" unique ability to be a skill, there's no real insinuation that said skill must be activated. In truth, I don't think intoxication should even be a skill/special. It should be set apart as a kind of modifier that can be applied to pretty much anything the ranger can use (arrows, throwing knives, daggers, you name it). Maybe that's something we can bring up in the ranger rework.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@TQM:

Tequila Mockingbird wrote:
I was not aware of this rule, i might have 3...

Quote:
Death’s Grace – Medium skill (IoaLS)
By releasing spiritual energy Kate is able to lighten her body and float an inch off the floor. When activated Kate is able to move at her normal speeds in any directions ignoring terrain. This skill has disadvantages however, Kate when floating has no friction to the floor and so can’t put as much force behind attacks and also she can get knocked back easily. Due to the spiritual energy having to be released, despite her not having to physically move she still gains fatigue equal to the tiredness she would have to use to move that speed normally. Kate can activate this on or off after three posts of it being in a particular stare.

[Yup, this is activated. Furthermore, it doesn't really have a limit. But you could easily just make this a special w/ 2 or 3 uses and a 3 post duration and it'd be fine.]

Quote:
The Chains of Freedom – Medium Skill (IoaLS)
Freedom the entity trapped in Katherine’s blade has bonded with her, its touch twists their souls together allowing them to share emotions. Freedom has grown attached to Kate and craves her attention like a jealous lover. Anyone else who tries to hold or touch the handle of the rapier experiences a painful shock for as long as the physical contact is maintained, while it does no lasting damage or pain it usually makes sure no one tried to touch her blade. In addition Katherine is able to call the blade back to her hand by whispering its name, the blade phases quickly into her hand after a second from wherever it is, using Kate’s spiritual energy as a conduit. Alternatively Freedom can use its own energy to instantly bring the weapon back into her hand with a dark flash, however this drains 1 post of energy from the Dark Jewel.

[This has no uses (though it does incur a "drain", but that's fine). So, it's not an "activated" skill any more than Jaedin's "Acrobatics" skill is. This is just something you (and Freedom, I suppose) can just...do.]

Quote:
Blood Vision - Racial skill
As an ancient technique of the Darksmiths' Kate has awakened the power inside herself, the blood vision is a second sight, which allows Kate to see a person's very life energy. When activated Kate sees around a person a glow of energy, which differs in colour and strength depending on the person and their type of inner power. In this way a warrior will have a much fainter glow then a magic user however is still very visible. However the technique can become tiresome on her eyes this can only be used for up to three posts at a time and then has to rest for two before being able to activate it again. (see Blust Lust)

Blood Lust – Weak skill
The blood vision had its flaws, the pain it caused when overused was one. But Kate soon overcame this focusing her mental will to keep the vision active this however had its own side effects. The vision opened up several well-sealed doors in a human’s mind, which should probably be left shut. Somewhere between instinct and insanity is what starts to build when used for too much time. The blood vision skill now can be used for longer periods of time and adds the effect to the surroundings with less of an effect of living things. However after 5 posts blood lust kicks in and the insanity and instincts of wanting to kill at any cost builds over the next few posts until post 12 where it reaches its peak of her unstable state. If used after post 13 she is not able to turn her vision off and has to spend the rest of the battle in this state. When turned off every post that passes she recoveries one post of insanity.

[Yup, this is activated as well. While there's an implied limit to it, it'll still pretty re-usable.]

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:45 pm 
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leboyX wrote:
My first stab at this is that they can't have specials. Just big[ger] summons. That leaves a pretty plain class. At least animists can make custom equipment for their summons.


Mid-level summoners should pick up some splashy skills then. If the problem is that they can't figure out a splashy Medium skill, then either they lack creativity or the skill system is at fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:54 pm 
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MikeEB wrote:
Mid-level summoners should pick up some splashy skills then. If the problem is that they can't figure out a splashy Medium skill, then either they lack creativity or the skill system is at fault.


Could you dial in what you mean by "splashy". It's got a rather..."splashy" definition.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:35 pm 
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leboyX wrote:
Could you dial in what you mean by "splashy". It's got a rather..."splashy" definition.


;D

I suppose that's true. At the end of the day, Grad felt like he was just limited to throwing summons around when he battled, and maybe that just didn't suit his style very well as he didn't know how to develop his character. Natural inept weapon usage means getting a skill to increase a type of weapon proficiency would not affect much. Maybe RPing and arguing with summons might be funny and totally schizo. As it is right now though, since summoners come out of the box not being able to fight well on their own, it's a pretty difficult class to know what to do with. Perhaps it's only good in the right hands, as it should be. But I'm hoping that classes like these and spiritualists and the such are a bit more attractive and less intimidating to play.

I was hoping people would mention Rangers in this patch. Ever since toxins came out I had no idea what to do with them, neither did I find a use. But I'm technically not a Ranger in the traditional sense, I suppose. I feel like they are pretty strong where they are now, it's just I never really thought that poisons were especially good or class-defining as something like Rages or Broken Movement.

...But I also have no idea for any replacement, so I just left it at that - a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:37 am 
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I don't think we should have a lot of classes built for "advanced" players. If a class is too complex/difficult to use or understand, we need to tone down the class or give it more user-friendly, balanced mechanics that give users room to grow. If a class like summoners is too plain (just lots of summons), I think we should change that to make the class more appealing.

ddranimestyle wrote:

I was hoping people would mention Rangers in this patch. Ever since toxins came out I had no idea what to do with them, neither did I find a use. But I'm technically not a Ranger in the traditional sense, I suppose. I feel like they are pretty strong where they are now, it's just I never really thought that poisons were especially good or class-defining as something like Rages or Broken Movement.

...But I also have no idea for any replacement, so I just left it at that - a thought.


I believe Khan is working on that very thing - it's part of some giant pile of works he's got squirreled away on all the classes.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:27 am 
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I'd like to weigh in on a few things I noticed while making my character, even though I don't have much experience yet.

I really enjoyed the freedom I had while making a character, as far as skills and specials are concerned. You can have fifty fighters without any of them being alike. The issue I had was when I saw the equipment page, really. Although there are a ton of weapons and armors that you can buy, once you have a decent sword and armor (or whatever it is you're using), there is really no more use for gold. I mean, as a mage my character can use it, but otherwise you're pretty much set unless you want to lug around a bunch of weapons. The way I saw it was, take a fight or two, take a loan, get custom armor. That was basically all of the item progression I could come up with for my character. I can see how it's sort of balanced out; mages don't need weapons so they have to purchase new elements. Fighters need big items, so they just hoard gold for them. I just wish that maybe there were some more item 'types' or something. Maybe even work out a way to have a real 'economy' of sorts, and eliminate the bank loans altogether.

Also, I wish there was a co-operative game mode other than friendly role playing. If a group of friends found this website they'd be hard pressed to go on an adventure or what have you together. It's all very 1v1 and seclusive. Maybe make the PQ system that you guys have more open and available, with lesser rewards? You could have community made dungeons that get basically approved by a moderator, and then one of the members runs it like a DM. This would make some spells actually worth taking, considering more supportive spells would be indirectly buffed.

Last thing, more of an afterthought that I'm just throwing out there. On the topic of an economy, why not have things like enchanting weapons using things you find in rp's or dungeons or what have you. Different blueprints and stuff could be given as rewards, people would pay each other for enchantments, rare weapons, or materials, and money would circulate a bit more. I just think that it'd be cool if there were more things to do during downtime in battles, in between posts and such. As it is now there's really nothing to do unless it's your turn to post, and we could really have more activity if there were more 'activities'.

Obviously none of these ideas are fleshed out, and I understand that they may all be terrible. Besides, I don't know how big of a patch you're aiming for. I was just thinking about some stuff at work today, figured I'd type it up and see what you guys think.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:30 am 
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Excuse my bringing this thread back. I don't know where else to post concerning this:

With a bunch of our people coming back, what are the thoughts of our now-greater pool of people about what is happening with this patch? I haven't heard much word about much from the people that reappeared.

About the retirement system? I know that has been noted and objected against time and time again, and I feel that the only way it has ever been even seriously considered this time around was by having a smaller pool of people that could be open to this becoming a real thing being the only ones having a say in its existence. Of course we do have some argument over its nuances (which is greatly welcomed; lets us better flesh the system out), but overall it is going towards development and possible implementation. Thoughts?

What about the other stuff that is being mentioned? The class reworks? Possible system mechanics changes? I don't want to make this sound like a call to action or obligation on members who are just catching up (or have been quietly watching progress in the background this entire time...), I'm merely suggesting that with a broader set of minds, it may be best to try to collaborate over the patch soon, while we're all freshened up.

...That and I'm curious to other's viewpoints, as well. :3

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:19 pm 
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I'm slightly lost with all the topic jumping XD, But I'm glad I've kinda caught up. I'm really not found of the new skill for samurai, but that's mainly because I worked so hard on my flourish. But, the advancement's in the other classes are coming along swimmingly.

How close are we to done on, well anything? Plus do we know if the retirement system and DI site move are both occurring? Beyond that I'm excited with all the change, all the old faces and hopefully new faces when all's said and done. Tell me where you need my pen and I'll be happy to put forth idea's on whatever needs work next I guess. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:38 am 
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I'll have t resurrect this and give my opinion, sorry for the necro-posting however 11 days isn't TOOOOO bad.

I like where ranger's are going.

Priests are getting fuzzier and fuzzier with more and more ideas and possibilities throwing around.

Summoner's work well with how they're intended.. They are, as far as I believe, a superior class that is relatively hard to play for the simple fact that they are a fighter, without specials, and a monster tamer, without permanent monsters. They are a good mix of the two and serve to be very scary if you can develop it far enough.

Animists.. I played an animist. They are easy enought o understand once you put some thoguht into it, but they are much the same as a summoner.. they require a higher levle of skill and character devotion that I was just unable to keep.

I like the retirement system, as it allows for new ideas to be thrown around to people who have been in one character for 5 years.. )Jaedin, Tzyrk, Ein, etc) and perhaps want to try something new but don't want to throw away all that hard work. I've always been a supporter, probably because it allows me to diverge on the different ideas I always have.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch time?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:34 pm 
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I'm worried you all think mystics are fine when their class skill is useless, but other then that I like where this is going :p.

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