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 Post subject: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:27 am 
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Ranger

Quick outline of the idea I had.

Quote:
Rangers start with 6 gold, a short bow, a Quiver and 30gold exclusively for arrow purchasing.
Quivers can hold 24 Field Tip arrows (even at one arrow per post thaats 3 pages of constant arrow firing.
Additional quiver can be purchased for a fee or something but you still need to be able to carry them and fight so any more than 2 might be impractical.

Specials are still made as per normal but they require arrows to use so a special that allows you to fire two arrows will use two arrows from your quiver.

Arrow Types:
Here’s where the unique ability of the class comes in.
Rangers can purchase special arrows to replace the normal ones in their quiver. Each purchase of an arrow gives you one use of that type of arrow per battle, buying 2 of them gives you two and so on and so forth. However you have to choose at the start of the battle which arrows you are taking with you.

Arrow Size explained:
Arrow size is basically the ratio of how many of this type of arrows takes up the same space as how many Field tips.
1:1 means each arrow take up the same space as a normal field tip.
2:1 means you can fit 2 arrows into the same space as one field tip
1:2 mean each arrow takes up the room of two field tips
2:3 two arrows take up the same space as three field tips, this rounds up though so if you only have one of that arrow it still takes up 2 spaces.
and so on and so forth.

Quote:
Field Tips: A normal wooden arrow with metal tip, travels at normal speed deals normal damage.
Cost: 1
Size:1:1


Quote:
Target Points: This arrow is thinner has no tip only sharpened wood. From a short bow it would barely penetrate an inch into a person at a distance however they are smaller and take up less space in the quiver.
Cost:2
Size 2:1


Quote:
Fishing Tip: Arrow with four thin metal fingers that jut out from the end and then point straight forward again. While it lacks penetration the wider profile means it’s far harder to simply dodge as the arrow head is now effectively three times as wide.
Cost:2
Size: 1:1


Quote:
Blunt Tip: Instead of a normal arrow head there is a rectangular block of steel so the weapon deals blunt damage instead. Some of the shock can even travel through unpadded metal armour.
Cost:3
Size:1:1


Quote:
Broadhead: Large two edged tip, shaped like a leaf made of hardened and sharpened steel. This arrow cuts through the air and penetrates deeper than your normal Field Tip.
Cost: 3
Size:2:3


Quote:
Double Broadhead: Like the normal Broadhead arrow however the tip has to sets of edges set in a cross. This arrow has a greater chance of getting through the pesky armour your opponent might be wearing. The larger head does make it harder to fit into a quiver though.
Cost: 4
Size: 1:2


Quote:
Reverse Tip: This arrow is similar to the standard Broadhead in damage, however the head is shaped like a chevron with tips also pointing backwards, this means that after the arrow goes into the target it is harder to pull out, and will deal more damage if it is.
Cost:4
Size:1:1


Quote:
Cruel Barb: Like the Reverse tip, however the arrow head is three inches with multiple sets of barbs pointing both forward and back. Once this arrow goes in it probably isn’t going to come back out without making a mess of things:
Cost: 6
Size:1:2


Quote:
Exploding Arrow head: large conical arrowhead with flint and stone set into the very tip. When the arrow strike and the tip is pressed in the black powder set into the head ignites and explodes sending fragments several feet in all directions. The explosive power is small and the fragments will probably deal lacerations at best but the flash is bright, the bang is loud and if the shot is accurate enough the target might get burned by the initial blast.
Cost:8
Size: 1:3


There are many many more types you could possibly think of. Rangers could even make their own custom arrow approved by mods. In essence the Rangers unique ability is extremely cheap custom weapons. But they can only be arrow heads, and you have to purchase as many as you want to be able to use in a battle.

Eventually a ranger will have more arrows in storage than they can fit in their quivers and will have to choose what to take into a battle. Do you take 24 Field Tips arrows, or 12 Field tips and 6 broad heads, or even a greater mix.

It also means special can be made interesting.
Double shot that shoots two arrows, now takes two arrows, but do you shoot two field tips, or perhaps a field tip and a broad head. or do you fire an field tip to make them block with their shield only to follow it up with a blunt to send damage straight through the shield into the arm behind.

specials might even cause bad results if you have the wrong arrow.
Firing say a flame arrow special if the only arrow you have left is an exploding arrow is probably a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:18 am 
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This is a really cool idea, and I love the custom arrows idea, but bows aren't just limited to Rangers, so were you planning on making any other class that wanted to get arrows pay for their arrows too? This would require a massive overhaul in how much gold people started with, and the cost of things in general, since it would otherwise be basically impossible to start with a bow with any class other than a Ranger.

On the topic of arrow costs, I don't think there's a fair way to match single-shot arrows to what you could otherwise be buying with that gold. Compare for example the Cruel Barb arrow with a set of Iron throwing knives: For the same cost, not only do you get 5 knives rather than one, but the very essence of the arrow itself means you will only ever get one shot at using it in a fight. You're either going to hit them once and they will break off the shaft, meaning you can't fire it again, or they'll block or dodge and potentially make sure you can't use the arrow again. For a cost to cost basis, this arrow is nowhere near what you could get for the same cost. And given the small numbers that we're working with here, I don't think that if an archer was wanting to buy them after his initial 30 gold, there would be a way to make it worth it.

A suggestion on that note would be to make the most basic arrows completely free across all quivers, and then make specialist arrows come in sets of 5 or something. Anyone with a bow should always be able to go into battle with a 100% full ammo storage, given that it is assumed that they have had ample time to prepare their quivers. This still stays true to the whole 'bowmen have limited ammo' idea, but means that a ranger will always have the same number of effective shots in his quiver (assuming that arrows that take up two slots are worth two arrows of course) as opposed to potentially not having enough money to fill out the rest of their quiver/s with basic arrows. Also, making arrows come in sets of 5 or so and then making them cost 6-20 gold as opposed to individually costing 1-10 gold will make archers more easily able to gravitate towards a certain style of arrows, as opposed to having a few one-shot wonders in their quiver.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Remember this is a concept, so all prices and arrow numbers are subject to change.

When you sell a bow on the market it would be a simple thing to make it cone with a number of arrows.

Knives vs arrows, knives are more coat effective in some cases but do less damage than most types of arrows, travel slower than arrows and of course are harder to aim.

This is a phone post so more detail the next time I'm at my computer the concept was was something that went from my head to the computer in 5 minutes so it will need work for sure

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Just on the topic of other classes buying bows, if you're looking for the ranger-unique aspect to be personalized arrows, why not just assume that all bows/crossbows come with a standard quiver of arrows at no extra cost? That gives a base for rangers to build upon and also gives other classes the ability to buy bows and not have next to no ammo.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:36 am 
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I don't mean for this post to sound bias, but I am basing quite a few points I have in mind off of my character, Tyzrk, who isn't really and never was technically a "ranger".

I was afraid of the idea of "buying" ammo. This makes items like my mana bow that do not have a shot capacity suddenly more valuable by a variable amount. I understand your argument that ~30 arrows is plenty for any battle, but the fact that any number can be placed on physical arrows versus mines puts the mana bow at an advantage, no matter how slight.

With the limited ammo capacity comes forth the idea of customizable arrow(heads). A strange, quirky idea that gives physical arrows an advantage over Tyzrk's magic ones. The depth of mix and matching arrowheads with specials makes it even more crazy. It's a nice twist off of the old poison tech.

As it is now, the poison tech arrows come in packs ("uses per battle, as per specials/skills), and are merely add-ons to the currently infinite quiver. Perhaps the quiver system is fine as it is? If a person buys arrow packs for gold, whereas poison techs come in form of specials/skills, and choose those over normal arrows in rationing their quiver space, it doesn't make much of a difference for a person to have infinite normal arrows and choose to shoot their special ones, except they'll always have choices. Aside from nonsensical things such as Tyzrk's raid specials, I don't see anything particularly wrong with seemingly infinite arrows in a fight, save for common sense and logic.

I feel like these arrowheads may make a player think too much in terms of number crunching/keeping track of all of their arrows in every post. Also think about matchups: if a ranger is going up against a caster type that doesn't use heavy armors, it doesn't make much sense to pack the blunter arrows pre-battle that are made to deal with that situation. But, save for arranged/RP battles, how would the character know they are to fight that caster-type in a regular battle? The player can say their character is carrying their sharper arrows in their initial post, and that slight advantage for nothing other than looking at who you're playing against might give too much power to the OOC.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Lord Sawsaw2 wrote:
This is a really cool idea, and I love the custom arrows idea, but bows aren't just limited to Rangers, so were you planning on making any other class that wanted to get arrows pay for their arrows too?
[If we go w/ the "you get a free quiver of "cheap" arrows, this point is moot. Furthermore, only Rangers should be capable of buying custom arrows]

On the topic of arrow costs, I don't think there's a fair way to match single-shot arrows to what you could otherwise be buying with that gold. Compare for example the Cruel Barb arrow with a set of Iron throwing knives: For the same cost, not only do you get 5 knives rather than one, but the very essence of the arrow itself means you will only ever get one shot at using it in a fight. You're either going to hit them once and they will break off the shaft, meaning you can't fire it again, or they'll block or dodge and potentially make sure you can't use the arrow again. For a cost to cost basis, this arrow is nowhere near what you could get for the same cost. And given the small numbers that we're working with here, I don't think that if an archer was wanting to buy them after his initial 30 gold, there would be a way to make it worth it.
[There'll probably be some bulk rate (packs of 5, 10, 20, etc.)]


ddranimestyle wrote:
I don't mean for this post to sound bias, but I am basing quite a few points I have in mind off of my character, Tyzrk, who isn't really and never was technically a "ranger".
[She's also a really old ranger.]

I was afraid of the idea of "buying" ammo. This makes items like my mana bow that do not have a shot capacity suddenly more valuable by a variable amount. I understand your argument that ~30 arrows is plenty for any battle, but the fact that any number can be placed on physical arrows versus mines puts the mana bow at an advantage, no matter how slight.
[But there's still no ignoring the practicality of limited shot capacity. Besides, it's not like Tyzrk spends all her time shooting mana arrows around. I doubt rangers will only shoot arrows for an entire battle.]

With the limited ammo capacity comes forth the idea of customizable arrow(heads). A strange, quirky idea that gives physical arrows an advantage over Tyzrk's magic ones. The depth of mix and matching arrowheads with specials makes it even more crazy. It's a nice twist off of the old poison tech.
[I wouldn't say they have an advantage over magical ones - they're just different. There's nothing stopping you/Tyzrk from making mana-arrow-based specials (esp. w/ your dual class).]

I feel like these arrowheads may make a player think too much in terms of number crunching/keeping track of all of their arrows in every post. Also think about matchups: if a ranger is going up against a caster type that doesn't use heavy armors, it doesn't make much sense to pack the blunter arrows pre-battle that are made to deal with that situation. But, save for arranged/RP battles, how would the character know they are to fight that caster-type in a regular battle? The player can say their character is carrying their sharper arrows in their initial post, and that slight advantage for nothing other than looking at who you're playing against might give too much power to the OOC.
[That's sort of the dilemma when your supply is limited. Anyone going into a battle will always tailor the arrows they take to their opponent's weaknesses (so long as their supplies are sufficient). It's not a lot of thought to figure out what to take into battle - alchemists sort of have to do that by using a limited amount of ingredients in battle.]


Personally, I'm in favor of a quiver, esp. b/c not all arrows are the same size. As I'm sure is evident from prior posts, I'm generally in favor of making classes rely a bit more on their gold supply. As it is now, most characters just hoard gold for custom stuff. I think it's better/more interactive to use gold along w/ skills/specials to grow a character.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:01 am 
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leboyX wrote:
Lord Sawsaw2 wrote:
This is a really cool idea, and I love the custom arrows idea, but bows aren't just limited to Rangers, so were you planning on making any other class that wanted to get arrows pay for their arrows too?
[If we go w/ the "you get a free quiver of "cheap" arrows, this point is moot. Furthermore, only Rangers should be capable of buying custom arrows]

The quiver of cheap arrows was what I was advocating here, so that's fine by me. However, given it's equipment, how can you rationalize limiting unique arrowheads to Rangers? I mean sure, making it more expensive for other classes to purchase them due to not being rangers themselves and not having the networks to source them easily, but it is still equipment, and thus should be available to every class, no matter how stupid of a purchase it might be.



ddranimestyle wrote:
I don't mean for this post to sound bias, but I am basing quite a few points I have in mind off of my character, Tyzrk, who isn't really and never was technically a "ranger".
[She's also a really old ranger.]

I was afraid of the idea of "buying" ammo. This makes items like my mana bow that do not have a shot capacity suddenly more valuable by a variable amount. I understand your argument that ~30 arrows is plenty for any battle, but the fact that any number can be placed on physical arrows versus mines puts the mana bow at an advantage, no matter how slight.
[But there's still no ignoring the practicality of limited shot capacity. Besides, it's not like Tyzrk spends all her time shooting mana arrows around. I doubt rangers will only shoot arrows for an entire battle.]

The only issue I'm seeing with this reasoning for why rangers should have restricted quivers is that as you pointed out, Tyzrk IS a really old ranger, and she has enough specials and alternate weapons that she could probably fight a lengthy battle without once resorting to using a regular mana arrow, given that she has swords etc. to flesh out her kit with. New rangers on the other hand will be totally unable to continue fighting after a point, since they'll be out of arrows and won't have any secondary weapons to switch to. Even early game archers will have this problem since even when they start getting gold, they have to either continue to have a restricted number of effective posts by buying more arrows and continuing the unique aspect of their class by investing in custom arrowheads, or diversifying and being forced to buy a secondary offensive weapon.

With the limited ammo capacity comes forth the idea of customizable arrow(heads). A strange, quirky idea that gives physical arrows an advantage over Tyzrk's magic ones. The depth of mix and matching arrowheads with specials makes it even more crazy. It's a nice twist off of the old poison tech.
[I wouldn't say they have an advantage over magical ones - they're just different. There's nothing stopping you/Tyzrk from making mana-arrow-based specials (esp. w/ your dual class).]

I feel like these arrowheads may make a player think too much in terms of number crunching/keeping track of all of their arrows in every post. Also think about matchups: if a ranger is going up against a caster type that doesn't use heavy armors, it doesn't make much sense to pack the blunter arrows pre-battle that are made to deal with that situation. But, save for arranged/RP battles, how would the character know they are to fight that caster-type in a regular battle? The player can say their character is carrying their sharper arrows in their initial post, and that slight advantage for nothing other than looking at who you're playing against might give too much power to the OOC.
[That's sort of the dilemma when your supply is limited. Anyone going into a battle will always tailor the arrows they take to their opponent's weaknesses (so long as their supplies are sufficient). It's not a lot of thought to figure out what to take into battle - alchemists sort of have to do that by using a limited amount of ingredients in battle.]

The only issue here is that in most battles, which (in character context) are not planned, the ranger should not have had any idea what kind of opponent he was facing before the fight itself. Thus, in character they should have been carrying anti-armour rounds (assuming they have them) because they MIGHT have been facing an armored target, and on the other hand they would also have been carrying anti-light armor rounds against armored opponents, as again they would not have known beforehand that they would be facing armor. In character, the player should not just have the option of putting only sharper arrows in his character's quiver for a fight against a mage, as there is no way the character would have done it. Obviously this doesn't apply for tournaments.


Personally, I'm in favor of a quiver, esp. b/c not all arrows are the same size. As I'm sure is evident from prior posts, I'm generally in favor of making classes rely a bit more on their gold supply. As it is now, most characters just hoard gold for custom stuff. I think it's better/more interactive to use gold along w/ skills/specials to grow a character.


While I'm totally in favor of more classes that are built around actually spending a character's gold supply on something other than custom weapons and armor, I think that restricting the number of basic attacks that a class can make is the wrong way to go about it. Custom arrows as a class basis are cool, and I can totally get behind that, but starting a ranger and basically running out of fight options after a certain number of shots seems irritating.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:48 am 
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Lord Sawsaw2 wrote:
leboyX wrote:
Lord Sawsaw2 wrote:
This is a really cool idea, and I love the custom arrows idea, but bows aren't just limited to Rangers, so were you planning on making any other class that wanted to get arrows pay for their arrows too?
[If we go w/ the "you get a free quiver of "cheap" arrows, this point is moot. Furthermore, only Rangers should be capable of buying custom arrows]

The quiver of cheap arrows was what I was advocating here, so that's fine by me. However, given it's equipment, how can you rationalize limiting unique arrowheads to Rangers? I mean sure, making it more expensive for other classes to purchase them due to not being rangers themselves and not having the networks to source them easily, but it is still equipment, and thus should be available to every class, no matter how stupid of a purchase it might be.
Everyone has always had the option of buying custom arrows, someone had (I can't remember who it was) It just cost them a lot. Anyone could make a custom weapon of an arrow like a ranger's, but they'd be following custom weapon rules, so a lot of gold of a very small number. Remember custom weapons are a minimum of 15gold so where a ranger might get 5 of an arrow for 6 gold a normal character would pay at least 15gold for the same number.



ddranimestyle wrote:
I don't mean for this post to sound bias, but I am basing quite a few points I have in mind off of my character, Tyzrk, who isn't really and never was technically a "ranger".
[She's also a really old ranger.]

I was afraid of the idea of "buying" ammo. This makes items like my mana bow that do not have a shot capacity suddenly more valuable by a variable amount. I understand your argument that ~30 arrows is plenty for any battle, but the fact that any number can be placed on physical arrows versus mines puts the mana bow at an advantage, no matter how slight.
[But there's still no ignoring the practicality of limited shot capacity. Besides, it's not like Tyzrk spends all her time shooting mana arrows around. I doubt rangers will only shoot arrows for an entire battle.]
Your Mana bow is a pre patch item and as such not subject to the rules that today's custom items are, of course it's more valuable. Jaedin's hookshot is basically a crossbow with limitless, indestructable shots. If your worried you simply make it so that without a special your mana bow can only fire field tips making it less powerful.

The only issue I'm seeing with this reasoning for why rangers should have restricted quivers is that as you pointed out, Tyzrk IS a really old ranger, and she has enough specials and alternate weapons that she could probably fight a lengthy battle without once resorting to using a regular mana arrow, given that she has swords etc. to flesh out her kit with. New rangers on the other hand will be totally unable to continue fighting after a point, since they'll be out of arrows and won't have any secondary weapons to switch to. Even early game archers will have this problem since even when they start getting gold, they have to either continue to have a restricted number of effective posts by buying more arrows and continuing the unique aspect of their class by investing in custom arrowheads, or diversifying and being forced to buy a secondary offensive weapon.
This in itself is a non issue as well when you think about it, the idea is to get a large amount of gold which can only be used for arrows, using a mix of normal, small and upgraded arrows anyone with even a smidgen of common sense will have enough arrows for a 3 page battle, how many first time battles go to that length anyway. They also get a small amount of normal gold with which they could buy another weapon if they wished.
-In any case rangers shouldn't be the people to complain about this, a first time mage, wizard, etc will go into battle with 8-15 spell uses total, and they manage their first battles without secondaries.
--Only Combat Classes have the capacity to fight at near full strength without their specials as they are more Skill Based, Agility Classes are the next down concentrating on a mix of skills and Specials, and Caster Classes are almost entirely reliant on their spell uses to fight, its how the classes are set up.

Most importantly Everyone is weak in their first battle, every single powerful character out their struggled with the same issues when they first set out. When Joshua started out he could only "see" for about 3 posts out of every 5 and the other two were spent blind, but you manage.


With the limited ammo capacity comes forth the idea of customizable arrow(heads). A strange, quirky idea that gives physical arrows an advantage over Tyzrk's magic ones. The depth of mix and matching arrowheads with specials makes it even more crazy. It's a nice twist off of the old poison tech.
[I wouldn't say they have an advantage over magical ones - they're just different. There's nothing stopping you/Tyzrk from making mana-arrow-based specials (esp. w/ your dual class).]

I feel like these arrowheads may make a player think too much in terms of number crunching/keeping track of all of their arrows in every post. Also think about matchups: if a ranger is going up against a caster type that doesn't use heavy armors, it doesn't make much sense to pack the blunter arrows pre-battle that are made to deal with that situation. But, save for arranged/RP battles, how would the character know they are to fight that caster-type in a regular battle? The player can say their character is carrying their sharper arrows in their initial post, and that slight advantage for nothing other than looking at who you're playing against might give too much power to the OOC.
[That's sort of the dilemma when your supply is limited. Anyone going into a battle will always tailor the arrows they take to their opponent's weaknesses (so long as their supplies are sufficient). It's not a lot of thought to figure out what to take into battle - alchemists sort of have to do that by using a limited amount of ingredients in battle.]

The only issue here is that in most battles, which (in character context) are not planned, the ranger should not have had any idea what kind of opponent he was facing before the fight itself. Thus, in character they should have been carrying anti-armour rounds (assuming they have them) because they MIGHT have been facing an armored target, and on the other hand they would also have been carrying anti-light armor rounds against armored opponents, as again they would not have known beforehand that they would be facing armor. In character, the player should not just have the option of putting only sharper arrows in his character's quiver for a fight against a mage, as there is no way the character would have done it. Obviously this doesn't apply for tournaments.
That's how the site works, everyone does it, and it works both ways a ranger gets to pick what arrows to take into the battle but his mage opponent knows what arrows he has as well. Even character's with limitless supplies do it, most people on one occasion or another have organised their next battle, and then bought a new weapon, or spent an unused skill or special that would be more beneficial against that opponent that another. I bought my first speed jewel to fight an opponent iI thought I would have difficulty against without the added speed.


Personally, I'm in favor of a quiver, esp. b/c not all arrows are the same size. As I'm sure is evident from prior posts, I'm generally in favor of making classes rely a bit more on their gold supply. As it is now, most characters just hoard gold for custom stuff. I think it's better/more interactive to use gold along w/ skills/specials to grow a character.


While I'm totally in favor of more classes that are built around actually spending a character's gold supply on something other than custom weapons and armor, I think that restricting the number of basic attacks that a class can make is the wrong way to go about it. Custom arrows as a class basis are cool, and I can totally get behind that, but starting a ranger and basically running out of fight options after a certain number of shots seems irritating.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Please delete content from a quote that you aren't quoting. It's getting hard to read all this.

Lord Sawsaw2 wrote:
The quiver of cheap arrows was what I was advocating here, so that's fine by me. However, given it's equipment, how can you rationalize limiting unique arrowheads to Rangers? I mean sure, making it more expensive for other classes to purchase them due to not being rangers themselves and not having the networks to source them easily, but it is still equipment, and thus should be available to every class, no matter how stupid of a purchase it might be.
[I still disagree w/ this. If the only real special thing about a ranger is this specialized equipment, it shouldn't be available to everyone. There's no rule (that I know of) that says all equipment has to be available to all classes. I'm not talking about deep discounts for rangers and steep prices for everyone else - I'm talking about restricting access to the items themselves. Aside from cross-classing (rare), no other class should be able to dip into the unique aspect of another.]

The only issue I'm seeing with this reasoning for why rangers should have restricted quivers is that as you pointed out, Tyzrk IS a really old ranger, and she has enough specials and alternate weapons that she could probably fight a lengthy battle without once resorting to using a regular mana arrow, given that she has swords etc. to flesh out her kit with. New rangers on the other hand will be totally unable to continue fighting after a point, since they'll be out of arrows and won't have any secondary weapons to switch to. Even early game archers will have this problem since even when they start getting gold, they have to either continue to have a restricted number of effective posts by buying more arrows and continuing the unique aspect of their class by investing in custom arrowheads, or diversifying and being forced to buy a secondary offensive weapon.
[I don't think we should try to tailor each class to enable starting characters to go toe-to-toe w/ more experienced characters. Facts are facts - fresh characters have less options than those that'd been around a while. Furthermore, I should point out that the Ranger class in many fantasy-based games gives characters proficiency in other things as well. In DnD, Rangers are also well versed in some form of sword play. I see no reason why they shouldn't be capable combatants w/ non-bow-related weapons here in DI.]

The only issue here is that in most battles, which (in character context) are not planned, the ranger should not have had any idea what kind of opponent he was facing before the fight itself. Thus, in character they should have been carrying anti-armour rounds (assuming they have them) because they MIGHT have been facing an armored target, and on the other hand they would also have been carrying anti-light armor rounds against armored opponents, as again they would not have known beforehand that they would be facing armor. In character, the player should not just have the option of putting only sharper arrows in his character's quiver for a fight against a mage, as there is no way the character would have done it. Obviously this doesn't apply for tournaments.
[Fair point. But there's nothing stopping characters w/ overcoming that dilemma. What about Ranger who carry a bag full of arrowheads and can quickly attach the head to an arrow as they nock it? It could be said that only certain arrow shafts are compatible w/ certain arrowheads, which can still leave the limited-quiver-capacity mechanic in place.]

While I'm totally in favor of more classes that are built around actually spending a character's gold supply on something other than custom weapons and armor, I think that restricting the number of basic attacks that a class can make is the wrong way to go about it. Custom arrows as a class basis are cool, and I can totally get behind that, but starting a ranger and basically running out of fight options after a certain number of shots seems irritating.
[See above point about Ranger versatility and staring char limitations.]

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:11 am 
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So I was thinking of more arrows ideas and I had a thought. Where do I stop, do we stop at mechanical based arrows (eg. things that are in theory possible) or are we allowed to touch into the arcane and create magic arrows?

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:38 pm 
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There is no reason why a ranger can't buy arrows from an enchanter or mage, so arcane arrows should be possible to buy in my opinion. Remember its all about preparation and buying these arrows, not making them.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:23 pm 
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I don't think you should just be able to buy magical arrows. Caster classes don't have specials, they have spells. If ranger's can just go the story and get spell-arrows, they basically have an easier way of getting more powerful equipment. I suppose the more mundane magics can be purchased, but I'm still skeptical about just supplying the marketplace w/ magical ammunition.

Arcane/magic-based arrows should require a special to use, and possibly a catalyst to give rangers access to specific kinds of energy. After all, it's not like rangers just know how to enchant arrows.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:17 am 
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Remember they are using gold to get these arrows, so I disagree about having to use a special just to get these arrows. They probably would want to combine these arrows with other specials they have (which is one of the major benefits of this system).

However I think the catalyst idea is perfect. The fact that a ranger would have to understand the arrow first before being able to use it seems like a prefect way to limit the abuse potential. There also might want to be a price increase on arcane arrows, if your still worried about balance.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:32 pm 
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I guess I just don't want anybody (i.e. non-Ranger classes) able to buy specialized arrows. That should be reserved only for rangers.

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 Post subject: Re: RANGER IDEAS
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:45 am 
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I agree. It acts as their class specialty, and nobody else - save for advancements - should be able to use it even at a higher (gold) cost. They spend time extensively memorizing arrowhead arrangements, uses, etc. A warrior with a bow for occasional situations may find special arrowheads excessive and not worth the time researching (opponent has armor? Just bash and stab through it, etc).

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