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 Post subject: All about deckbuilding in MWO version
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:55 pm 
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I was wondering about the limits on deckbuilding in the next Maganic Wars
And if the game rules will change because of it.

Is there a minimum amount of cards that can be in a deck?
A maximum number of copies of cards with the same name? Will it vary based on the card's power? (a deck full of dragon bursts or similar cards would own anything...)

A limit on cards using certain mechanics, like paralyze? (to prevent people from making all-cards-have-paralysis decks)

Do you still reshuffle when your deck runs out of cards, or do you lose when you can't draw?


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 Post subject: Re: A question about deckbuilding
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:24 pm 
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McArrowni wrote:
Is there a minimum amount of cards that can be in a deck?A maximum number of copies of cards with the same name? Will it vary based on the card's power? (a deck full of dragon bursts or similar cards would own anything...)


Good questions:

A) Regarding a minimum ammount of cards in a deck there are some possibilities:
    A.1) A fixed minimum number of cards, no matter the level or any other thing.
    A.2) A variable minimum number of cards that depends on your character exp level. (level0 guy has to choose 26 cards; level2 guy 27... not linear).
    A.3) A total minimum number of cards (variable or not), and also a maximum number of cards for each cards level and depending on your character exp level. (ex: explevel3 guy must have a total of 27 cards in his deck, as you are explevel3 (not 4 or 5) you can only have a maximum of 3 cards from level3 (*), the rest of the cards in your deck must be level0 cards). I think this is the best choice.
(*) Note that cards are arranged in groups of 5 or 6 cards each 3 levels. Ex: level0 has at least the minimum number of initial cards (to begin playing), level3 has 5 new cards and can also be bought when you achieve exp level 3 with your character, level6 has 6 new cards...This is only to give the game more tilt otherwise we would have to make tons of cards. It's quite messy but I think it would work pretty well. Of course there will be indicators in the deck builder that let you know how many cards you can have from each level.


B) Regarding duplicates in a deck there are two possibilities but it's almost clear that we are going to implement the first one:
    B.1) No duplicates. Otherwise Maganic Wars will become an MTG clon and we want to keep our philosophy. It's also a good point for gameplay variety and prevents balancing problems. Also low power card artists must have the oportunity to show their illustrations.
    B.2) Allow duplicates. It brings lot of balancing problems as well as complexity. As a good point it adds a little more strategy to the game and boostes trade possibilities.

In any way you can have duplicates in your book and trade with them but in B.1 you can only equip one of them.

McArrowni wrote:
Do you still reshuffle when your deck runs out of cards, or do you lose when you can't draw?


This is an interesting point as it will give players a reason to add more cards to their decks, and not search for the minimum "best" ones.

I'm not sure if it will be good for game fun as it changes quite a bit current Maganic Wars gameplay, which is demonstrated it brings lot of fun.

Anyway we can always add an option when creating a game, so you can choose a "one deck" battle. I think that would be the fairest option, and it wouldn't be very hard to implement.

Probably tournaments will be arranged also in that way.

Let me know what do you think about all of this, suggestions are well received in this matter.[/quote]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:12 pm 
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Quote:
A) Regarding a minimum ammount of cards in a deck there are some possibilities


i believe that A2) is the best option, so it challenges everyone to lv for that reason too :D

Quote:
B) Regarding duplicates in a deck there are two possibilities but it's almost clear that we are going to implement the first one


i have an idea about this: at lv0, u can have a max of 2 of the same in the deck. after 5 lvs, u can have 3 of the same, and so on. again, this would challenge ppl to lv ^^

there could be 2 modes:

Shuffling mode - The deck is totally shuffled after 10 turns
Graveyard mode - Cards go to the graveyard, instead of going to ur deck again. Once in the graveyard, you cant pick it again (unless theres cards to bring cards from the graveyard (this would be a good idea for a card effect ^^, but again, cards with this effect would be useless in shuffling mode, unless they do something else on that mode)


ill make this thread sticky, since it looks like its a important feature thread.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:15 am 
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From my experience in mtg, a bigger deck is less powerful, because it is less consistent. So it's harder to make a quick or combo (and sometimes, degenerate) strategy work.
Duplicates have a similar effect in reverse. More duplicates is more powerful because you can rely on drawing them more consistently.

If you keep the deck at around 26 cards for low-levels, I'd go for no duplicate. This allows you to control exactly how many cards using a specific mechanic are used, whilst still allowing you to produce them.
If ever you want players to be able to draw a type of card consistently, you'd just have to make variants for those.

As for A3, and keeping a minimum of cards per level, I think it adds more luck to the game. But it might be able to take it. After all, you have factors outside of cards that remain constant, and don't have to worry about lands like in MtG.

Besides, it's probably not too hard to add cards that reward players for skill, and allow more consistent strategies. Probably easier than to make the game slower.


EDIT: One deck battles will become tricky because of this, I believe (remember that a 26 cards deck plays for only 22 turns before running out of cards). But then, these battles might very well end up being the most interesting of all. With some decks focusing on quick victories and some decks focusing on survival, it should be an interesting metagame.

Suggestion: if using A3, keep the proportion of high-level cards roughly the same as with decks with fewer cards, or to the total. This way, a One Deck Battle deck of many many cards would still have a chance.

Another suggestion: maybe the beta could allow you to test what kind of deckbuildings create the most interesting results. A3 is still closer to current MW though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm 
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I too agree with A3, as this resembles current MW where you gain cards as you "level up" and as for the question of duplicates, i would say no duplicates except like 2 of certain cards that aren't super powerful.... so very limited duplicates, that way there is some strategy as to what cards you put in your deck (plus you dont have to make as many cards for variety in decks) but while still making it so you must use a large variety of cards.... for shuffling features i would say... i have to agree with maguas, sort of... go with shuffling decks so that it resembles current MW but add in the one deck/no shuffle option so that there is extra diversity, faster battles, etc.
but i also agree with McArrowni that beta testers should be used to test different deckbuilding options and give feedback on their fav ways.... after all, other than bug checking, what else is a beta tester good for


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:45 am 
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I'd say 3 of a kind of the comon (ie knight shiled pyro seris dispell) 2 of a kind for some of the more powerful but not very(lighting psn light sword) and 1 version of an "Unlockable" power card


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 Post subject: Idea!!! @_*
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:42 pm 
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~In-game card costs and rarity~
Okay, this part is integral to the entire system I'm about to describe. The cost of a card is dependant on the character's level, class, and stats. So, for example, a high strength fighter will be able to purchase physical attack-type cards for less than any other type of cards he is able to purchase, while a high dexterity fighter will be able to purchase physical defense/block-type cards the cheapest. So, this would require each of the stats to influence the price of a type or types of cards, possibly leading to stat synergies for purchasing cards. Note that there should be a price floor for the cards so that an uber-strong guy won't be buying high level physical cards for 1g.

Now a character's level will influence the rarity (findability) of the cards, a low level player will have a hard time finding what he wants, possibly having to go to 'specialist' card shops where the prices are increased, while a higher level character won't have as much trouble finding the same cards.

Also Level should determine the 'copy limit' or how many copies may be used in your battle deck, class type should influence this as well, a fighter being able to have many copies of low level physical cards and only one or two of a spell card. ~Possibly limit the types of cards a certain class can access or 'see' without 'training' to use a certain type of card~


@Training@- See above for the basic idea of this. Each class will have unrestricted access to common cards such as 'dagger' or 'punch' as well as their own class-type of cards (rouge/poison, fighter/physical, etc.) But for, say, a fighter/warrior to use poison cards he must go to a special trainer, possibly a demi-quest in itself to find said trainer, and pay an amount depending on the character's level to use that type of card. This would be the equivalent of multi-classing, possibly boldening the similarities by making the training 'sectioned' in batches of levels (0-12, 13-20, 21-40, etc., etc., '100+')



~Copy Limit~
As you level increases you should be able to use more of a single card in your deck, this is called a card's 'copy limit', common cards should have a very high copy limit when compared to 'typed' cards. Note that there should be a cap on each level of cards so that even super-high level characters will be limited in their use.

*Possibly incorporate a stamina/energy/toughness stat into determining the copy limit as well*



~Deck Size Restrictions~
Base Deck Maximum=Sum of all possesed cards' copy limits (meaning any cards you can use will have their current copy limits added together)
+5 deck maximum per level (0-50)
+4 deck maximum per level (51+)
+1 deck maximum per 'toughness'
+1 deck maximum per 'strength'
+1 deck maximum per 'intelligence'
+1 deck maximum per 'wisdom'
Base Deck Minimum=1/4 the number of cards available to your character (this includes cards your character does not actually have, but is capable of using)
+1 deck minimum per level (0-10)
+2 deck minimum per level (11-30)
+3 deck minimum per level (31-60)
+4 deck minimum per level (61+)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:32 am 
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Maybe I'm just simple, but I like A1.
If running out of cards creates an automatic defeat, I think there should be a range of about ten cards you can use, to increase the skill involved in the game.
If running out of cards results in a shuffling of the deck, then A1 is good. A3 sounds too complicated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:58 am 
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I think you should reshuffle afterards, but recieve a "permanent" modifier to your stats and not be able to hold as many cards in your hand for the rest of that battle and for some time afterwards, this is where SLEEPING comes in

also you lose some random cards from your deck before drawing again after a deck-out


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:31 am 
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in makeing a cariter weir do you paste the code?? :?:


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 Post subject: Paralysis and Deckbuilding
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:37 am 
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I brought up Paralysis' problems a long time ago, but can't find anything new on it now. Please point me to the correct thread if it is there.

Paralysis in non-randomly built decks is just begging to be broken. You could chain from one Paralysis card to the next until you either:
1.) Run out of Paralysis cards.
2.) Feel like playing something else.
3.) Killed the opponent by playing that third Dragon Burst while they have yet to play a single card.

I love the Paralysis mechanic as it involves a lot of strategy (such as: "Do I play this Poison/Regeneration card now and milk as much as I can out of this Paralysis or do I simply just play it now?"), but it would be infuriating to lose because I lost the coin flip at the beginning of the game.

"Gelid Touch, Luck, Luck, Ghoul Touch, Gelid Touch, Dragon Burst, Ghoul Touch, Dragon Burst, Dragon Burst, Lightning++, gg"

I'm wondering if deck building has been tweaked for Paralysis or if Paralysis has been tweaked for deck building.

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