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 Post subject: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:25 am 
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I've been mulling over the Mystic class for some time now, mainly the rules about delayed seals and the single active seal. I've found them to be a bit unfair since the class was made, but agreed that allowing mystics to stack seals could be seen as unfair. I move that we either drop the single active seal rule or at the very least change it to the following.


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The mystic can have as many active seals as he or she is able to maintain, however only one negative or positive seal can be applied to an object. A mystic may attach a seal to an opponents weapon and the opponent themselves, but armor (Excluding shields) count as being attached to the person, even if a seal is attached to a pair of boots it counts for the entire person.


The reason I push for this change is that it was made to uphold a single special per turn rule, however the battle system works in a different way. Players are able to apply buff specials with a duration one post and then use a different special in the very next post. I feel that the rules were not so clear when this class was added, or the rules have been muddied since its creation.


As for the Delayed Seals, I don't feel they should require double cost when being created. I feel as if count the application of the seal as an offensive action and its later activation as another, then it makes up for the versatility of its behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am 
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Scottsonknight wrote:
I've been mulling over the Mystic class for some time now, mainly the rules about delayed seals and the single active seal. I've found them to be a bit unfair since the class was made, but agreed that allowing mystics to stack seals could be seen as unfair. I move that we either drop the single active seal rule or at the very least change it to the following.


Quote:
The mystic can have as many active seals as he or she is able to maintain, however only one negative or positive seal can be applied to an object. A mystic may attach a seal to an opponents weapon and the opponent themselves, but armor (Excluding shields) count as being attached to the person, even if a seal is attached to a pair of boots it counts for the entire person.


The reason I push for this change is that it was made to uphold a single special per turn rule, however the battle system works in a different way. Players are able to apply buff specials with a duration one post and then use a different special in the very next post. I feel that the rules were not so clear when this class was added, or the rules have been muddied since its creation.


As for the Delayed Seals, I don't feel they should require double cost when being created. I feel as if count the application of the seal as an offensive action and its later activation as another, then it makes up for the versatility of its behavior.


I agree with these sentiments.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 am 
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Speaking as a mystic, I agree. :P. It does kind of make delayed action barely worth it the way they are now. And yeah. Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:37 pm 
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When I made Vius, I did almost make a mystic but I hated how their rules worked so I also agree with this change, for whatever that's worth.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:46 pm 
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As long as you're only activating one of those seals in a given post, I'm OK with that. I'd really hate for someone to be able to drop seals all over the place and then hit them all at the same time. It would make delayed action too powerful otherwise. If we're dropping the increased cost clause then that idea must be added. However, if delayed action could be "chained" and activated all at once (which may be interesting...), then the extra cost stays (whether you intend to chain them or not) and we'd have to make the mystic declare which ones are being chained together when they are applied.

Another question: Does the "only one negative or positive seal" rule apply to both friendly and hostile usage, or only hostile? (I had one more, but it just slipped my mind.)


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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:57 pm 
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I'd say activating a delayed seal counts as the '1 special used per post rule.' Though I'm not exactly sure what you mean by chaining.

And I was thinking yes to limiting them to 1 beneficial seal as well.


Hold that thought - I have an idea that will make this more interesting and give the mystic a class skill-type thing. -- tDb

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:11 am 
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OK, I know that this is very early stage, but I was wondering what we could do with the mystic class (which currently doesn't have a class skill) that could make it more awesome.

I give you - chaining!

theDINGbat wrote:
Chaining, Mystic Class Skill In addition to being able to use their magic seals on command, some mystics have been able to figure out how to use their delayed action seals in a more dramatic fashion in which the final product of the seals is more potent than the sum of their parts. Chaining is only available with delayed action seals (which are still double cost...as listed before) and the placement of each seal in a given chain still counts as a use of a special, as per the normal rules. All seals in a chain must be placed in consecutive posts, with the mystic declaring that the seal is being used as part of the chain. Once a chain is complete, the mystic must declare that it is and no other seals may be added to it after that point, nor may another chain be started. The limit to the number of seals in a chain is equal to (insert some sort of milestone-esque idea here).

During any post, the mystic may choose to activate the chain using a distinct action that will be a sort of "trademark" determined at character creation. This activation counts as the use of a seal and therefore, no other seals may be placed or activated in this post. The seals are activated in the order in which they were placed and have the effects that they would normally in a sequential manner.


Very convoluted and very in the idea phase...but I think it sounds cool, while justifying the cost of delayed action seals and allows an interesting level of strategy to the class.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:23 am 
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Dibs on breakdancing to activate my chain.

DIBSED.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:29 am 
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theDINGbat wrote:
OK, I know that this is very early stage, but I was wondering what we could do with the mystic class (which currently doesn't have a class skill) that could make it more awesome.

I give you - chaining!

theDINGbat wrote:
Chaining, Mystic Class Skill In addition to being able to use their magic seals on command, some mystics have been able to figure out how to use their delayed action seals in a more dramatic fashion in which the final product of the seals is more potent than the sum of their parts. Chaining is only available with delayed action seals (which are still double cost...as listed before) and the placement of each seal in a given chain still counts as a use of a special, as per the normal rules. All seals in a chain must be placed in consecutive posts, with the mystic declaring that the seal is being used as part of the chain. Once a chain is complete, the mystic must declare that it is and no other seals may be added to it after that point, nor may another chain be started. The limit to the number of seals in a chain is equal to (insert some sort of milestone-esque idea here).

During any post, the mystic may choose to activate the chain using a distinct action that will be a sort of "trademark" determined at character creation. This activation counts as the use of a seal and therefore, no other seals may be placed or activated in this post. The seals are activated in the order in which they were placed and have the effects that they would normally in a sequential manner.


Very convoluted and very in the idea phase...but I think it sounds cool, while justifying the cost of delayed action seals and allows an interesting level of strategy to the class.


It's an interesting idea but I have a questions on the "Placed in Consecutive Posts," Which I've underlined. Does that line mean that in order to make a chain A mystic would have to place a seal every post, or just can't use another seal until he ends the post? I am 100% against the first option I listed, as an opponent can then break the whole thing by dodging.

I also feel that if we do this, maybe we should put in a part that enables non delayed action seals to become delayed action seals when being put in a chain. (Provided that the chain is started with a real delayed reaction seal) If not, you're asking Mystics to spend a WHOLE lot on double cost seals just so they can use their class skill.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:08 am 
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For your first concern...that's true...but then again, an opponent can pretty much break anything by dodging...but that's just the way it is. I'm loathe to let a mystic build chains at will though, if an opponent is going to dodge something that they don't like, then that's what will happen. The consecutive post thing could be rescinded, but some sort of limit should be put into place.

I also share the concern with the delayed action costs. However, I'm not going to let you just make non-delayed action seals delayed when put into a chain, because that would totally eliminate the need for this mechanic.


:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

On the other hand, we could make it so that delayed action seals don't exist unless they're in a chain (the chain being what makes them delayed action). However, if that were to go forward, there's a couple things I'd like to add.
- You will never be allowed to make more than one active chain as a result of a skill...outside of a medal. (That means that if you want to make one seal a delayed action, then use it as your only chain...but you'll have to wait until you set it off to make a new one.)
- We still need to figure out how long a chain can be. I'd like to see it based on something like the mage's stress system, where it grows as you grow. Or, maybe you can use a given seal only once in a chain.
- If this wasn't clear, you won't be able to place the final seal and activate the chain in the same post as these are considered two unique uses of a special.


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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:42 am 
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I'll comment on this when I'm sober, but I have a few thoughts that I can't put into proper words right now.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:46 pm 
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theDINGbat wrote:
Chaining, Mystic Class Skill In addition to being able to use their magic seals on command, some mystics have been able to figure out how to use their delayed action seals in a more dramatic fashion in which the final product of the seals is more potent than the sum of their parts. Chaining is only available with delayed action seals (which are still double cost...as listed before) and the placement of each seal in a given chain still counts as a use of a special, as per the normal rules.
This is all good up to this point.

All seals in a chain must be placed in consecutive posts
This, however, isn't so good, primarily for the reasons that SSK outlined.

, with the mystic declaring that the seal is being used as part of the chain. Once a chain is complete, the mystic must declare that it is and no other seals may be added to it after that point, nor may another chain be started. The limit to the number of seals in a chain is three. Chains may not be made entirely of the same seal, but must be composed of at least two different seals (Ie. Seal 1, Seal 2, Seal 1 = 3 seal chain using two different seals

three seems more than reasonable - no other class's abilities scale, why should the mystics?.

During any post, the mystic may choose to activate the chain using a distinct action that will be a sort of "trademark" determined at character creation. This activation counts as the use of a seal and therefore Could be reworded to 'the use of an offensive special',

no other seals may be placed or activated in this post. The seals are activated in the order in which they were placed and have the effects that they would normally in a sequential manner.

This indicates some sort of delay in between the activation of each of the seals - why don't they all go off simultaneously? That would just make things easier.


I'm going to say no to the idea of removing delayed action seals altogether. Those seals were originally intended to be the sort of 'class skill' for mystics, though I will say that the ridiculously increased cost makes it seem like it's not a class skill. Also, this would require the reworking of Wolf's Kitty Teleport seal that we all know and love.

I'm also going to say no to allowing non-delayed seals into chains for the following reason: It would be silly - that would allow mystics to chain several offensive spells into one post in a manner that would otherwise be disallowed. Imagine the sort of ridiculousness that could happen from that. I don't want to, personally - it's just frightening

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:10 pm 
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When I brought up the idea of turning non Delayed Action into Delayed Action, I was thinking of limiting the Chaining ability to either once per page or twice a battle. Forgot to add that though.

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Okay... question. Are we talking about taking away the double cost on delayed action or not? As it is, for the double cost... I don't think I'll ever get another delayed action, whether it can be chained or not. It's just not worth getting mediums for strongs even if I can have 3-4 things happen in one post instead of just spread out in those same 3-4 posts but at double strength? (Because I can have a seal go off every post, so if they are all double the strength of the ones in the chain, I fail to see this chain being worth it.)

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 Post subject: Re: New Ink for Mystics
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:30 pm 
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So... I was just thinking. Why not apply the milestone system to mystics to allow them to acquire delayed action seals and remove their extra cost. Also, we could allow them to have one out and still use other seals, but no delayed action seals until the previous delayed action seal was taken. What do you guys think?

Also, only have the distinction that the delayed action seal uses an attack action if it's actually an attack seal.

What do you guys think of that?

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